Canola based motor oils - better than conventional and synth

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Canola based motor oils - better than conventional and synth

Postby SunWizard » Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:42 pm

They use HO (high oleic) canola oil as a base for the oils, and add anti-oxidants. And they get better performance than conventinal or synthetic oils, such as higher lubricity. If we could get these VO motor oils, they are the best to use in your engine. And HO canola is the best to use as fuel incase some VO is getting past the rings at startup, it just helps the motor oil and doesn't oxidize as fast as other types of VO.

Here is a study from purdue where they found canola based motor oils to outperform both conventional and synthetics in many ways:
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-029.html
And running a canola based motor oil lowers emissions and increases MPG. And then we could burn the motor oil in the VO tank after each change :D and collect from everyone else who was using it.

More from research in my town:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/01/980129074428.htm
http://www.rense.com/ufo/motoroil.htm

Here is an article about canola based hydraulic fluids:
http://www.plantservices.com/articles/2003/353.html
where they compared it to a commercial, premium synthetic oil and found it was just as good. Hydraulic fluids are your tranny and power steering fluid, and used in tractors and industry.

The only trouble is the monopoly that the API (American petroleum institute) has which has prevented it from getting their rating since they don't want competition from non-petro motor oil. They are the ones who give ratings like 10w-30. And without that rating, it doesn't meet manufacturers warranty even though it exceeds all other oils in almost every category.

These montana farmers are working on getting it approved, and when they do (soon! and cheaper than synth oil), we should be the first to support them:
http://www.peaksandprairies.com/bio-based-oil-lubricants-news.php?newsID=4

This company says its about to release a similar oil, but they said that in 1998 press releases too:
http://www.agromgt.com/

Many have been using canola based motor oils in Europe, mentioned in This thread but its expensive and here is the only US supplier I have found:
http://www.renewablelube.com/motor%20pricing.htm

Elsbett and several other manufacturers very experienced with VO recommend everyone burning VO use it.
Last edited by SunWizard on Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby VegMeister » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:37 am

Good stuff, but I don't think that you could burn the drain oil after a change... or at least good luck trying to filter it out.

From personal experience, old-fashioned 15W40 motor oil is the BEST fuel ever for your diesel engine, especially if it's a paraffin based petroleum oil. However, it's a little expensive to dump into your fuel tank, and it's IMPOSSIBLE to filter it practically after it has been used as motor oil.
centralvalleybiodiesel CF
1993 GMC Sierra K2500 6.5L + homebuilt veg kit, OEM glowplug failure (update: rebuilt with a 6.2 block, working fine)
1988 Ford 6.9L OEM dual tank, 90+% veg oil blend.
1989 Ford 7.3L, 80+% veg oil blend.
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Postby SunWizard » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:06 pm

I think VO is the best fuel ever, since its got higher lubricity, and almost every other quality that matters. And it appears it is also the best motor oil as well.

I don't like burning used motor oil since it smokes and smells bad. And it probably leaves deposits on injectors and combustion chambers (signaled by the amount of smoke.) Some old gassers I had sure got bad deposits from the oil they burned. I have had many offers of hundreds of gallons of it for free, and have turned it down.

If you filter VO motor oil to 5 microns absolute as I do for my other fuel, it should be fine to burn. If it doesn't create excess wear on the bearings, rings and other wear surfaces after > 1 million strokes of the pistons, is it going to create too much wear in your IP or injectors with 1 more stroke added?

Although 1 persons oil change is not much quantity, if you could collect from lots of people using VO motor oil, it would add up quickly.

Why do you say you couldn't burn it?
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby VegMeister » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:04 pm

The problem with used drain oil, as I understand it, is the contaminants that are in it. So I'm approaching this saying that regardless of wether you have a petroleum based drain oil, synthetic drain oil, paraffin based, etc, the problem of contaminants will be the same. And what I mean by this is small pieces of metal, microscopic bad stuff that you don't want in the combustion chambre. Even using it for a heating fuel is hard... but not impossible. I have a friend that has hundreds and hundreds of gallons of drain oil in a large container in a corner of his shop. But we've modified his burner considerably to be able to burn the drain oil.

Now, back to the idea of using used drain oil in an engine. I totally agree that filtering it down to 2-5 micron absolute is your BEST option. And that a centrifuge (which is what you're using) is probably what you'd HAVE to go for if you ever wanted to use used oil in your diesel. However that begs the question, why aren't you running all this used oil being offered to you through your centrifuge? And what makes you think that it would be any easier/safer if the drain oil were veg based?
centralvalleybiodiesel CF
1993 GMC Sierra K2500 6.5L + homebuilt veg kit, OEM glowplug failure (update: rebuilt with a 6.2 block, working fine)
1988 Ford 6.9L OEM dual tank, 90+% veg oil blend.
1989 Ford 7.3L, 80+% veg oil blend.
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Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:12 am
Location: Pembine, WI

Postby SunWizard » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:23 pm

VegMeister wrote:why aren't you running all this used oil being offered to you through your centrifuge? And what makes you think that it would be any easier/safer if the drain oil were veg based?

Here is why from my post above:
I don't like burning used motor oil since it smokes and smells bad. And it probably leaves deposits on injectors and combustion chambers (signaled by the amount of smoke.)

I know from experience that VO doesn't smoke or leave deposits.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Posts: 1721
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby djenkins6 » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:38 am

I found G-Oil but they don't seem to have anywhere to buy it

http://www.getg.com/products/products.p ... roductID=1

and this discussion is way too serious - I like this quote in another discussion forum 'I used to have a g-oil friend, but she moved back to Lung Oiland and we broke up.'

David
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Postby VegMeister » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:28 pm

SunWizard wrote:
VegMeister wrote:why aren't you running all this used oil being offered to you through your centrifuge? And what makes you think that it would be any easier/safer if the drain oil were veg based?

Here is why from my post above:
I don't like burning used motor oil since it smokes and smells bad. And it probably leaves deposits on injectors and combustion chambers (signaled by the amount of smoke.)

I know from experience that VO doesn't smoke or leave deposits.


Yes, same experience here (with used motor oil). However, I think that the problem with used motor oil is not the motor oil itself (because burning unused motor oil is GREAT for power, if bad for your pocketbook) or if the problems (smoke, smells bad, deposits) are caused by contaminants in the used motor oil. And specifically the TYPE and size of contaminants. Not the kind of simple dirt you pick up in a deep fryer. If I'm correct in thinking the problem is with the contaminants, then the same problems would happen even if the motor oil was veg-based. Are you saying that the problem of burning motor oil is not the contaminants but rather the oil itself?
centralvalleybiodiesel CF
1993 GMC Sierra K2500 6.5L + homebuilt veg kit, OEM glowplug failure (update: rebuilt with a 6.2 block, working fine)
1988 Ford 6.9L OEM dual tank, 90+% veg oil blend.
1989 Ford 7.3L, 80+% veg oil blend.
VegMeister
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:12 am
Location: Pembine, WI

Postby SunWizard » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:15 pm

Its properties of the oil itself, it burns far different than VO. The contaminants are such tiny amounts they don't change combustion much. Try burning 100% brand new motor oil or even a 50% blend in your heated 2 tank rig, and it will smell just as bad and produce the same amount of smoke as used motor oil. Just like my old smoky gassers would do immediately after an oil change.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1721
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby VegMeister » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:08 pm

SunWizard wrote:Its properties of the oil itself, it burns far different than VO. The contaminants are such tiny amounts they don't change combustion much. Try burning 100% brand new motor oil or even a 50% blend in your heated 2 tank rig, and it will smell just as bad and produce the same amount of smoke as used motor oil. Just like my old smoky gassers would do immediately after an oil change.


Fair enough. That's basically what I was wondering... although I realize now I didn't really have it phrased as a question :(
centralvalleybiodiesel CF
1993 GMC Sierra K2500 6.5L + homebuilt veg kit, OEM glowplug failure (update: rebuilt with a 6.2 block, working fine)
1988 Ford 6.9L OEM dual tank, 90+% veg oil blend.
1989 Ford 7.3L, 80+% veg oil blend.
VegMeister
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:12 am
Location: Pembine, WI


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