Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testing

Collecting, filtering and dewatering of WVO SVO vegetable oil. For Biodiesel producers too.

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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby N2GN2 » Wed May 14, 2014 6:42 pm

I would love to have something as reliable as your unit. Is there something that would offer similar results as your setup?
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby White99z » Thu May 15, 2014 5:48 am

SunWizard... Your posts never cease to amaze me! I'll be making one of these as soon as I can!
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby SunWizard » Thu May 15, 2014 8:39 am

YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby SunWizard » Thu May 15, 2014 8:43 am

Another place I found with a simple google search, but at a higher price:
http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-HCH-1000-001-HONEYWELL-HUMIDITY-SENSOR/dp/B005S3Q3V4
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby N2GN2 » Thu May 15, 2014 1:26 pm



Thanks SunWizard, I did not see this place before. I ordered the last 4. Now to look for a meter.... What capacitance meter specs should I be looking for? Any further updates to your success with your device?
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby SunWizard » Thu May 15, 2014 2:05 pm

N2GN2 wrote:What capacitance meter specs should I be looking for?

The best accuracy you can find. Mine is Protek CM109 $45, accurate to 0.5% of 300 pF = 1.5pF = 3% humidity, see the 1st post where this is mentioned.
Any further updates to your success with your device?

No, just keeps working good.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby White99z » Thu May 15, 2014 8:09 pm

N2GN2 wrote:


Thanks SunWizard, I did not see this place before. I ordered the last 4. Now to look for a meter.... What capacitance meter specs should I be looking for? Any further updates to your success with your device?


Want to sell one? I tried to order two, but it said I needed a $25 minimum order. There wasn't anything else I needed :mrgreen:
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby N2GN2 » Fri May 30, 2014 12:58 pm

SunWizard, your instructions are hard to understand. Maybe you can provide some assistance.

Sample A = 351 Cap
Dewatered = 284 Cap @ 180ºF
w/ .5 ml water 322 Cap @ 76ºF
w/ 1 ml water 346 Cap @ 76ºF

Can you graph this for me and find Cap at 0%?
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby SunWizard » Fri May 30, 2014 2:30 pm

You really can skip anything about calibrating to PPM, its only useful to compare to sandy brae, but if you must:
What part of directions are trouble? Here they are copied again:
Calibration to PPM without SB:
This device is so linear its easy to calculate PPM by doing a simple spiked sample as I have done. Save a jar of sample A, get a cap. reading, then dewater 1000ml of sample A using an evaporative method, even if its simply in a large pan on a hot stove for a while. Cool to at least 230F or it may hurt the sensor, and confirm its dewatered by a low cap. reading. Cool it down to room temp. so the readings don't need temp. compensation, write down the reading Acap. Then make a spiked sample (AS) by adding 0.5ml water to the 1000ml = 500 ppm and stir well, (I used an old blender on low for only a few seconds) and wait an hour or longer (I did overnight on some) for the water to become dissolved. I shake the sample in a jar before a test. These 2 samples then give you the slope of the line:
Slope = 500 / (AScap - Acap) in PPM per pF
Then to compute the PPM of any sample of oil similar to A:
PPM = (cap - 311) * slope.

What value is your dewatered at 76F = Acap? you don't list and that is the most useful #. No I am not making a graph, you can print mine above and draw yours on it. Then draw a line through the points as I did. Reason why PPM doesn't matter From page 1, post#4 above:
I have found PPM is not as useful as % saturation since PPM varies hugely depending on the FFA. And % saturation easier to measure and compare between varied batches. I set a goal to get the % saturation below 60%. I find that 60% is easy to reach since my centrifuge runs have all been getting below 30%.
Formula for %saturated= (cap. pF - 311) / .6

Also do the tests with some new VO since it holds far less water before saturated.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby N2GN2 » Fri May 30, 2014 2:36 pm

I added the water before I remembered to take a room temp cap. I can't use your graph because my Y intercept is lower than your 310. I don't know what the y intercept equation is.
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby SunWizard » Fri May 30, 2014 3:58 pm

N2GN2 wrote:I added the water before I remembered to take a room temp cap. I can't use your graph because my Y intercept is lower than your 310. I don't know what the y intercept equation is.

Then you need to start again and save samples of each to re-test since the dewatered is most important. The graph is of little importance, but figure out how to draw one of your own on a piece of paper with that one as an example. It probably won't be much below 310.

If you use new VO, that is usually dewatered out of the bottle, and gives more useful data since its also low FFA. But only do 500 ppm max. since any higher and you are > 100% saturated with most new VO as you see on my charts.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby N2GN2 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:20 pm

I bought some new oil. I measured 323 baseline and 330 with 0.5ml of water added.
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby SunWizard » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:17 am

N2GN2 wrote:I bought some new oil. I measured 323 baseline and 330 with 0.5ml of water added.

Baseline looks about right since mine was 325 with new VO, but the .5 looks too low, mine was 358. Did you stir with a blender? How long did you wait for it to dissolve? If you don't do this on a new VO test, the water stays in big drops and goes to the bottom giving a low reading. Try again to read the .5 sample.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1720
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby N2GN2 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:45 am

I shook it many times and it has been 24 hours since adding the water. I just put the sample through the blender and I will update my findings tomorrow.
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby N2GN2 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:25 am

The water has been in the oil for 48 hours. It has been blended and shaken. The cap is 325.
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