Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testing

Collecting, filtering and dewatering of WVO SVO vegetable oil. For Biodiesel producers too.

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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby SunWizard » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:43 am

That new oil must be so low ffa that it won't hold any water, its probably all in small droplets near the bottom of the jar. Try dewatering another sample of your WVO, cool, and remember to measure it before adding water.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
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81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby SunWizard » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:03 pm

There is something wrong with those measurements since your new VO (close to zero ppm) is 323 and your WVO 500ppm added sample is 322, less than the 0ppm sample? Might need to review how you are holding the sensor or any other things that could cause bad readings. How quickly does the reading stabilize after you dip it into the WVO? WIth it in the air, and you breath on it does it respond to your humid breath by quickly rising in cap?

Try testing some of the same old samples as long as they were in sealed jars to not get water from the air, and see if you get the same readings as before.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby N2GN2 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:20 pm

N2GN2 wrote:I bought some new oil. I measured 323 baseline and 330 with 0.5ml of water added.

After putting it through the blender and waiting another 24 hours I got 325. I let the sensor stabilize for at least 1 minute until the meter stops moving. My sample of old oil with 1000 ppm water added didn't go above 330. I tried another sample with similar results. The sensor does react to breathing on it. Maybe it's the meter...
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby SunWizard » Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:06 pm

More likely its the sensor or your method. How are you holding the sensor or wires? I don't touch either, I only hold the meter. You will notice it changes based on how you hold it so you must be consistent. Strange that your 1000 ppm is now measuring 330, before that sample was 346?
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby brobrad » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:14 am

I've read through the thread. I've been burning veg for about 7 years (150K miles). I had a 7.3, merecedes and currently have a F150 converted to a cummins 4bt running veg. I've been getting buy fine with settling, heat settle, and filtration for all of these years. I recently purchased a 6.0 Powerstroke at a really great price with many upgrades on it. I plan to convert it, but I've been concerned about its "sensitivity" so this test will be very useful. I've still got some questions about it all, but i'll read through it a time or two and see if I can formulated steps 1,2,3 on making sure I'm getting the right measurements. thanks for the thread.
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby veginator » Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:26 pm

As has been posted previously, the HCH-1000-001 is obsolete, but there's still some number of HCH-1000-002 sensors in stock - though they're also "obsolete," apparently having been replaced by new generation of much more expensive sensors that don't look like they'd be as friendly to this application. The -002 version appear to be identical to the -001 version, only they've got a plastic protective shroud on them (see data sheet at http://www.onlinecomponents.com/datasheet/hch1000002.aspx?p=11933917). Sunwiz - I'm guessing you chose the other version so it would be easy to wipe them off between samples...right? I think the -002 version might yield its cover without too much of a fight, if that's the case. These are not expensive at $3 ea, as someone posted, but also as posted, the $30 min charge is off-putting - especially since I've got an $18, 0.5%-tol C-meter enroute from China. I may find some other electronics parts I need to make up the min charge, but thought I'd see if anyone else needs one or two sensors, and wants to buy some offa me at cost plus a buck for mailing. PM me if so.

Sunwiz, did your sensor not "soak" over time? My quick read of how these are generally constructed made me think that might be a problem, but you've seemed to be OK with yours for quite a period of posts.

Thanks for the trailblazing here, as in other realms of WVO.

--Dave
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby SunWizard » Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:05 am

veginator wrote: Sunwiz - I'm guessing you chose the other version so it would be easy to wipe them off between samples...right?

Yes.
Sunwiz, did your sensor not "soak" over time?

No problems, but I don't know what you mean by soak.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby veginator » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:20 pm

At last I've got bits & pieces together to test humidity measurements per Sunwiz's findings, with some variations. Cap-meters from China have probably dropped in price and changed in name since Sun went through this, though it's still hard to pick out those that specify 0.5% tolerance. I found one - a "Newcason XC6013L" - that cost $18 including postage, which is scary-cheap...though it may fall apart as I've had some other knockoff meters do. Feel of it is fine, though - no complaints so far.

Sensor? I couldn't bring myself to pay "Hawaii penalty" (or so it seems) to UPS, plus deal with the $30 min order, to get Sun's version of the sensors from the online supplier that has some left. Actually what they have are the Honeywell "sister"-humidity sensors (I think they're identical other than having a plastic housing over them - that could probably be snapped off). Instead, I took a chance on another type that came in a 2-pack via ebay - cheap, like less than $10 for the two IIRC, mailing included. Mine also came with protective plastic caps, and they come off very easily if needed. I'm attaching a photo of a sensor plugged directly into the C-meter.
humidity sensor in C-meter.jpg
humidity sensor in C-meter.jpg (236.35 KiB) Viewed 348 times

My concern about these is that they look like they might be harder to wipe off - Sun, are your Honeywell sensors 'smoother' (less surface features) and easier to clean, or is this not even a thing?

What I meant about 'soaking' was from a generic description of how these sensors work - here's an excerpt from one similar to what I was reading a few weeks back:
"Capacitive RH sensors are built on a substrate of glass, ceramic, or silicon. A dielectric layer made from a thin polymer film or a metal oxide is placed between two metal electrodes. The surface electrode is porous so water vapor in the air reaches the dielectric layer yet still protects it from contamination and exposure to condensation."
I'm thinking if there's a membrane-soaking problem to worry about - wherein the dunk-it-in-the-oil method would degrade this membrane - then you'd have noticed it by now...right? You've been using the same basic setup for quite some time, then? It's actually hard for me to imagine how soaking isn't a problem, now that I think about it, but hopefully that's more than I need to worry about.

--Dave

I'll calibrate & do some more testing with this setup soon.

--Dave
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby SunWizard » Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:14 pm

My sensor is totally smooth so its easy to clean, and you need to wipe it off every time. I have had no problems with soaking and it still works good.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby Guisepi » Wed May 10, 2017 2:19 am

Sorry to revive an old thread!

It's an old, but goody. I've been using SunWizards Capacitance method while on the road for the past few years and I love it.

The only problem is that I've broken my only humidity sensor (hch-1000-001). Does anyone have any that they stockpiled when they became obsolete? I'd love to purchase one or two.

Thanks! Guisepi
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Re: Homebrew capacitive water in oil % saturated meter testi

Postby Guisepi » Wed May 10, 2017 2:25 am

Or, has anyone tried the model HPP801A031 that Sun recommended?
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