1995 Dodge Cummins 4x4 WVO conversion, FPHE, 3 valves

A description and pics of your SVO WVO Vegetable Oil conversion, help the next person who gets that model.

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Re: 1995 Dodge Cummins 4x4 WVO conversion, FPHE, 3 valves

Postby SunWizard » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:15 pm

zachmaxon wrote:It seems like from your purge operation that VO is left in the veg filter and fphe after purging? Is the VO just purged out of the diesel lines?

Yes, everyplace where diesel flows that is shared with WVO, like the IP and lift pump, not just lines.
If so, what about the vo in the lines the few feet after the fphe? When you switch back to veg, wouldn’t this not be to the proper heat before it hits the injectors, especially if it’s partially hydrogenated and cold out?

That section of hose is bundled tight with the coolant hoses so it gets hot before switchover.
Could I just purge all the veg out of all the lines by switching the tank to diesel and return to WVO? This would quickly purge all the wvo out of the VO filter and FPHE if the lift pump pumps about a gallon a minute (is that accurate?).

That is no faster than how I always purge, fastest you can get, see the description in post#1. With my design there is no return line to the WVO tank, and none needed since WVO during purge returns back the supply line.
Then, if I time things right, when I switch to veg at the right temperature when I want to run it, I could wait 15 or 20 seconds for the diesel in the veg lines to return back to the diesel tank before I switch return to looped veg. This would have to be timed fairly accurately of course, or I’d get veg in my diesel tank.

Not worth it since its too hard to time accurately since it depends on RPM. And I like a slower transition from cold diesel to hot WVO on the lift pump and IP.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: 1995 Dodge Cummins 4x4 WVO conversion, FPHE, 3 valves

Postby zachmaxon » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:37 pm

the coolant heat is enough to melt even hydrogenated wvo huh? where do you t into your line before the injectors? does your coolant hose warm the line all the way to the T?

doesn't the veg line dub as a return line though when the return valve is switched to return? wouldn't the fuel technically return to the veg tank?

i'm a little worried now...darnit...should i not be?
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Re: 1995 Dodge Cummins 4x4 WVO conversion, FPHE, 3 valves

Postby SunWizard » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:17 pm

Could I just purge all the veg out of all the lines by switching the tank to diesel and return to WVO? This would quickly purge all the wvo out of the VO filter and FPHE if the lift pump pumps about a gallon a minute (is that accurate?).

There is no advantage to purging the WVO filter and FPHE, that would waste and consume about a gallon of extra diesel at each switchover. And make purges take 4x longer. You don't understand the return valve, there is no return to WVO position.
zachmaxon wrote:the coolant heat is enough to melt even hydrogenated wvo huh? where do you t into your line before the injectors? does your coolant hose warm the line all the way to the T?

Tee is 10" before the IP. Warmed to 10" before. IP is warmed by engine oil.
doesn't the veg line dub as a return line though when the return valve is switched to return?

No, see the diagram and full description in post#1. Return position returns only to diesel tank. Looped WVO position returns to WVO tank during purge when supply is switched to diesel, thats why the loop tee is just before the supply valve.
i'm a little worried now...darnit...should i not be?

If you followed my setup its been well tested >6 years and hundreds of people, often down to -10F. If you changed anything, that may be a worry.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Re: 1995 Dodge Cummins 4x4 WVO conversion, FPHE, 3 valves

Postby zachmaxon » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:44 pm

Sun,

In your design, after your initial HIH from the tank to the valves, is there hoh as much as possible on all of the veg lines from the 3 way valves to their respective locations?
I’m still not sure I understand how you heat the veg line right before the injectors. According to your photo it looks like you rout it from the heat exchanger and snugly up into some of your coolant hose and then (unseen) down to a T ten inches before your injectors? Is there any part of that line that is unheated by hose? Is it just a rubber line like it looks coming out of your heat exchanger? Is most of the heat from the hoh or from the engine at the injector? And you say this is enough to push hydrogenated oil through that short section of line even if it sits overnight in sub zero weather as long as the engine is up to heat before you switch? It doesn’t seem like it could get the short chunk of line from the heat exchanger to T before the injectors to a full 160-180 degrees. Do you think it does? I’m sorry about all the questions. Thank you for your patience…

Also. It seems like there could be a little not fully heated VO that hits the fuel pump at the initial switch over? Is this at all true? Or do you have the collant hose routed so that it touches all the veg hose so that it gets at least fluid enough for the pump?

Is the fuel pump able to push a little (seems like it could be very little) partially hydrogenated stuff without damaging the pump?

I have my T before the injectors about 4 or 5 inches after my diesel filter with two sections of coolant hoh around it. I’ll try to figure out how to get a picture. The line goes from my heat exchanger directly to this T, seems like about 2 feet of hose, maybe less, almost all of it touching at least one HOH. All SEA 30R7 rubber line like yours. Do you think this is good enough for heat? Do you insulate your veg lines at all? If so, how?
Your solar tank. Does that aid a lot in getting hydrogenated stuff fluid enough to flow to your pickup or does most of the fluidity come from the coolant loop? Would you do jello-like hydrogenated stuff in the winter if you didn’t have that tank? I have a topper on my truck and cannot utilize the solar gain that you can. My tank is 50 gallon stainless steel. Does not having the solar advantage put me at a great disadvantage in terms of the oil flowing to my fuel pickup?

Also, I’m still not sure how you get air out of your lines.

Again, thank you so much for your help. I’ve had a lot of fun doing a lot of hard work on this conversion but I’m also a worrier and I just really hope this works out…I appreciate everything you’ve done.

Thanks again, sun
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Re: 1995 Dodge Cummins 4x4 WVO conversion, FPHE, 3 valves

Postby SunWizard » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:25 pm

zachmaxon wrote:In your design, after your initial HIH from the tank to the valves, is there hoh as much as possible on all of the veg lines from the 3 way valves to their respective locations?

Yes.
I’m still not sure I understand how you heat the veg line right before the injectors. According to your photo it looks like you rout it from the heat exchanger and snugly up into some of your coolant hose and then (unseen) down to a T ten inches before your injectors?

Yes.
Is there any part of that line that is unheated by hose?

About 2' between the valve and the WVO filter, which gets heated during warmup by the hot WVO in the filter.
Is it just a rubber line like it looks coming out of your heat exchanger?

Yes.
Is most of the heat from the hoh or from the engine at the injector?

Too hard to tell.
And you say this is enough to push hydrogenated oil through that short section of line even if it sits overnight in sub zero weather as long as the engine is up to heat before you switch?

Yes.
It doesn’t seem like it could get the short chunk of line from the heat exchanger to T before the injectors to a full 160-180 degrees. Do you think it does?

Probably not, but another good part of this design is that it creates on a WVO/diesel blend at switchover slowly going from 100% diesel to 100% WVO over about 5 minutes. The lines are all >160F long before it becomes 100% WVO at the IP.
Also. It seems like there could be a little not fully heated VO that hits the fuel pump at the initial switch over? Is this at all true? Or do you have the collant hose routed so that it touches all the veg hose so that it gets at least fluid enough for the pump?

See last answer.
Is the fuel pump able to push a little (seems like it could be very little) partially hydrogenated stuff without damaging the pump?

Yes when its a low percentage of WVO blended with diesel as explained.
I have my T before the injectors about 4 or 5 inches after my diesel filter with two sections of coolant hoh around it. I’ll try to figure out how to get a picture. The line goes from my heat exchanger directly to this T, seems like about 2 feet of hose, maybe less, almost all of it touching at least one HOH. All SEA 30R7 rubber line like yours. Do you think this is good enough for heat? Do you insulate your veg lines at all? If so, how?

Some of them, with grey foam hot water pipe insulation from Home Depot.
Your solar tank. Does that aid a lot in getting hydrogenated stuff fluid enough to flow to your pickup or does most of the fluidity come from the coolant loop?

Define "a lot". It aids some, but not on -10F mornings before there has been any sun, and its still fine.
Would you do jello-like hydrogenated stuff in the winter if you didn’t have that tank?

Yes but I might wait slightly longer for my heated pickup to melt the frozen WVO, or do a larger loop of coolant tube to heat in the tank.
I have a topper on my truck and cannot utilize the solar gain that you can. My tank is 50 gallon stainless steel. Does not having the solar advantage put me at a great disadvantage in terms of the oil flowing to my fuel pickup?

No, since there is often no sun for 3-5 days at a time and that is when its the coldest out.
Also, I’m still not sure how you get air out of your lines.

I never get air in my lines, except for when first installed with empty lines when I put a few PSI of air pressure in my WVO tank with the line before the IP unhooked and draining into a jug until WVO appeared. If you have air leaks, you need to find and fix them.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Re: 1995 Dodge Cummins 4x4 WVO conversion, FPHE, 3 valves

Postby zachmaxon » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:18 am

sun,

How do you keep from getting air in the system when you change your filter?

I didn’t figure that diesel would dilute the veggie for the first few miles! I’m not sure exactly how that works though, since it’s all veggie when you switch valves…how does that work?

Do you drive your truck fairly regularly so that new oil is constantly cycling in and out of your fuel tank? I won’t be driving it on veg regularly, not having regular long trips more than once every month. is it bad for good clean oil to stay in a tank for more than a month? I’ll have a 50 gallon tank, probably at least half way full most of the time, and wouldn’t know what to do if the oil went bad on me. Would clean oil do fine in a tank for 2 or 3 months even in hot weather? Do you know if the commercial biocide stuff work well with wvo? I wouldn’t know what to do if the oil went bad on me…
Also, with the possibility of air in the lines…what if you ever had to change your lines? Wouldn’t it be tough from keeping air from getting in them? Would you just purge the wvo and prime with diesel?

thanks, i'm just trying to cover all my bases...still a little worried...
zachmaxon
 
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Re: 1995 Dodge Cummins 4x4 WVO conversion, FPHE, 3 valves

Postby zachmaxon » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:30 am

i apologize for the last question about air in the lines, i just realized you basically answered it before. you pop the line before the injectors and compress the air until wvo comes out.
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Re: 1995 Dodge Cummins 4x4 WVO conversion, FPHE, 3 valves

Postby SunWizard » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:42 am

zachmaxon wrote:How do you keep from getting air in the system when you change your filter?

Fill the filter with WVO before installing it.
I didn’t figure that diesel would dilute the veggie for the first few miles! I’m not sure exactly how that works though, since it’s all veggie when you switch valves…how does that work?

Its looped and full of diesel. WVO is slowly added to the loop as the diesel/WVO blend is burned.
Do you drive your truck fairly regularly so that new oil is constantly cycling in and out of your fuel tank?

Yes.
I won’t be driving it on veg regularly, not having regular long trips more than once every month. is it bad for good clean oil to stay in a tank for more than a month?

Bad, see the polymerization thread: about40.html best to ask all these off topic questions in that thread or start a new one.
I’ll have a 50 gallon tank, probably at least half way full most of the time, and wouldn’t know what to do if the oil went bad on me. Would clean oil do fine in a tank for 2 or 3 months even in hot weather?

No. Best to have a smaller tank like mine. I take added 30 gallon barrels and/or 5 gal. cubes of WVO when I do long trips.
Do you know if the commercial biocide stuff work well with wvo?

Doesn't help with poly.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Re: 1995 Dodge Cummins 4x4 WVO conversion, FPHE, 3 valves

Postby zachmaxon » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:34 pm

sun, i can't seem to find your tank from the link you gave at the beginning...could you give me a more specific one. i'll need to get that then...dangit.
zachmaxon
 
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Re: 1995 Dodge Cummins 4x4 WVO conversion, FPHE, 3 valves

Postby SunWizard » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:52 pm

zachmaxon wrote:sun, i can't seem to find your tank from the link you gave at the beginning...could you give me a more specific one. i'll need to get that then...dangit.

Doesn't need to be the same one, just smaller. Here is mine: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RCI-2171AD/

If you already have one installed I would keep using it, and keep a close watch out for poly (smell the tank opening each time you open within a second.) Your WVO source may be good enough that it doesn't occur. If it occurs, then change. Or if your filter suddenly starts clogging quickly (<1000 miles.)
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Re: 1995 Dodge Cummins 4x4 WVO conversion, FPHE, 3 valves

Postby MikeGoodman59 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:32 pm

What is the minimum inlet pressure for a 1998 12V in-line P7100 IP?

Converted my DODGE. Installed a RAPTOR 100 under the hood doing double duty. First failed electrically. Got home using a FACET pump, 5.5-9.0 psi and it's doing that: 5-10 psi. The RAPTOR was set at 15 and PURE FLOW/AIR DOG said 15-17.

Second RAPTOR is sucking air. All was tight. Can't believe both RAPTORs would fail. Any thoughts? I like the FACET produts. If I can't get the RAPTOR to work, which pump would anyone recommend?

These good folks: http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94-98 ... -pump.html
hinted at 20 psi, but one person said 5 psi. Think they were solid at the 15+ range
Mike Goodman
High Point, NC
1983 MB 2-tank (Modified Greasel, 2005)
1982 VW Rabbit Truck (Custom Conversion, 12/09)
1998 Dodge 12V 5.9L (Golden Fuels, 07/12)
DieselCraft processor
Tinkering w/BD
2.8 KW grid-tie/batt back-up
6-4x10 solar heat/HW wood stove
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Re: 1995 Dodge Cummins 4x4 WVO conversion, FPHE, 3 valves

Postby SunWizard » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:01 pm

MikeGoodman59 wrote:What is the minimum inlet pressure for a 1998 12V in-line P7100 IP?

There is no min. but the stock pump puts out 20 at idle and 35 above 1500 RPM. It always stays above 20 even under heavy load and floored.
If I can't get the RAPTOR to work, which pump would anyone recommend?

Nothing is anywhere near as good as the stock pumps, they are far stronger than any others and are available from almost any dealer or parts store nationwide. Much cheaper than a raptor too.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1720
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Re: 1995 Dodge Cummins 4x4 WVO conversion, FPHE, 3 valves

Postby MikeGoodman59 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:46 am

Conversion done on 98 12V. Sucking air on diesel. Runs fine on veg. Additional inch vac at filter. Loss of 1 psi to pump. Have hose over cut hard fuel line under truck. Double-clamped but still think it is a possible source. Want to use compression fitting to barb. I think it is 3/8 OD. Anyone know for sure?
Mike Goodman
High Point, NC
1983 MB 2-tank (Modified Greasel, 2005)
1982 VW Rabbit Truck (Custom Conversion, 12/09)
1998 Dodge 12V 5.9L (Golden Fuels, 07/12)
DieselCraft processor
Tinkering w/BD
2.8 KW grid-tie/batt back-up
6-4x10 solar heat/HW wood stove
MikeGoodman59
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:49 pm
Location: High Point, NC

Re: 1995 Dodge Cummins 4x4 WVO conversion, FPHE, 3 valves

Postby SunWizard » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:03 pm

MikeGoodman59 wrote:I think it is 3/8 OD. Anyone know for sure?

Yes it is. Plumb it like mine (which is also like stock) and there is no place under vacuum and much less chance for air leaks.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1720
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Re: 1995 Dodge Cummins 4x4 WVO conversion, FPHE, 3 valves

Postby MikeGoodman59 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:08 pm

Considerimg all you've said. Thanks for info.
Mike Goodman
High Point, NC
1983 MB 2-tank (Modified Greasel, 2005)
1982 VW Rabbit Truck (Custom Conversion, 12/09)
1998 Dodge 12V 5.9L (Golden Fuels, 07/12)
DieselCraft processor
Tinkering w/BD
2.8 KW grid-tie/batt back-up
6-4x10 solar heat/HW wood stove
MikeGoodman59
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:49 pm
Location: High Point, NC

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